YES. For God's sake, yes. The guys who founded the SoBs have done great work, but this has gone beyond them at this point. There needs to be accountability and a more open spirit towards decision making.
The US Constitution was created in 1787, ratified in 1788, and the Electoral College unanimously elected our first President in 1789. George Washington then served for two 4 year terms.
The Sons of Ben were created in 2007, ratified in 2008 (MLS announced Philly got the team on Feb. 28, 2008), and the first President was elected unanimously by the Elders (assumption but you get my point.)
Given that 2009 was our first year, the next elections will take place in 2013. I expect Bryan to win again (if he still wants it).
the people who have put all the time in to get this going should always be in control of the final say. maybe allow members to be elected to a position where they have some power. but while the founding members desire they should have the most power in the decision making process.
I'm not an elder or a founding member or a charter member, hell... I joined right before the season because I feared a lockout.
Still, though, I think it is way out of line to say to the guys that have sank so much of their own time, money, and passion into creating this organization, "Thanks for creating the SoB, but we're going to take it away from you now."
That is not right, not fair, not ethical. I know a few people who are saying that they demand change or they aren't happy, and those same people haven't volunteered to do jack shit throughout the course of the season.
I believe that everyone should have a voice, but I don't think that elections are the way to go. We're all members of the SoB, but the guys who created it should still be running it in this member's opinion.
Nobody wants to take the SoBs away from Bryan and Chris and Brad and the rest. But if we want to sit in the River End, we need to join the SoBs. How long does the group remain under their sole authority? I'm all for giving them a permanent role, or title, if that's what they want, but given that SoB leadership is conduit of the voices of the fans to management, the fans should have a say. (I assume, for the record, that Bryan and the rest would handily win any election - it's the principle of the thing.)
Here's an idea: A two house system of governance of the SOBs... A House of Founders and a House of Commons.
The House of Founders would be reserved for the founders of our great organization, those who had the vision and foresight to bring the MLS to Philadelphia. Their seat would be a life long appointment.
The House of Commons would be an elected seat. I have 2 ideas as to how people would be elected to the House of Commons. The first is based on PPL seating sections. Each of the 7 River End sections would get 1 seat in the HoC,the rest of the stadium would get 1 seat, and I believe the Illegitamate Sons of Ben should also receive a seat, for a total of 9 seats. The 2nd idea is representative of the Sons of Ben by where they come from. There would still be 9 seats, but they would be based on 7 counties (Philadelphia, Delaware, Chester Bucks, Montgomery, Berks, and Lancaster), 1 seat for the rest of PA, and 1 seat for Non-PA SOBers.
Now I know looking at this idea there are going to be a lot of people who get on their Revolutionary War/Politically correct high horse "That is modeled after Parliament! This is the United States! WE CANT DO ANYTHING THEY DO!!" But this is really the best possible solution for all parties involved. Those who deserve the credit for bringing the Union to life get lifetime recognition and the masses who keep the SOBs strong and loud get represented as well.
Yes you are paying into something, BUT the SOB's are a non-profit it isn't like the elders are making money off the membership. The money paid in went to tailgating supplies, the jerseys, tifo and all the other things required to make the SOB's run during the year.
The elders are working on setting up section reps that can interact with each section of the river end, and then the reps can relay that information that they get to elders and give information to the sections.
I think everyone needs to just stand up, cheer and enjoy the games. The time and energy it takes to run an organization like this is unmeasurable. They started this group, and you CHOSE to join. If you don't like it, quit. Start your own supporters group, create and manage a website, lobby the league for a team, grow and manage a 5,000+ member club, obtain your own section in a beautiful stadium, create a productive and MUTUALLY beneficial dialogue with the FO, throw great tailgates, and on and on. OH WAIT...the SoB's have already done that for you and all they ask is for $30 a year. Whaaaaa!
Arguing that membership in the SoB is -voluntary- is a load of crap. If you want to sit in the RIver End, you need to join the SoBs. Management doesn't talk to "the fans," or the leaders of other groups - they talk to the SoBs, because of the size of the group and the fact that the SoBs are effectively a team-captive organization at this point.
The Elders should either acknowledge the true nature of their relationship to the organization, or open leadership to elections.
Why can't we share the leadership roles? Everyone just wants to feel included. I love being a part of the Sons of Ben, I love being a part of something that is bigger than me. But I also love having the feeling that I can influence that something.
Also, no one is trying to take away from the time and energy that Bryan and all the founders have poured into both the Sons of Ben and the Union. Their effort does not go unnoticed. But it is also important for any organization to keep moving forward and not be content with the status quo. Both the Union and Sons of Ben are going to run through some tough times in the next couple season in bringing in new fans and holding on to those that we have. New ideas, new energy, and new faces can only help that process with the guiding support of Bryan and Co.
All of this has been heard time and time again. It is being worked on. The Elders are working on setting up a group of section reps for each section of TRE and I wouldn't be surprised if SoB members who aren't in TRE get representation as well. The horse being beaten here is long dead. Trying to rush this is like rushing the cure for cancer. It's being looked into and worked on, but complaining about the lack of a result isn't making it go any faster.
And before anyone says anything about elections for the section rep spots. Volunteers were publicly asked for and not all the spots were even filled. Lets get more people involved with the workings of the group before we even think about holding any sort of election.
Lastly... There is no way any of the elders should lose their spot unless they give it up freely. They have put more into the SoBs than any number of people combined. I'm all for the Sec Rep idea and things like it. But the Elders have earned their places. They deserve to stay in them as long as they want.
i dont think taking the founding fathers of the group away is a good idea, they do a great job. but maybe if us normal sobs can vote on decision making would be good. since the playoffs are going on i tuned in and what do i hear during pretty much all the games. the forbidden words we cant use anymore. i know a alot of members are saying being able to vote on things such as what we can say and what we cant say would be nice because people are saying lets just say what we want just like ealges, flyers, and phillies games. why take away our philly ways. so having a majority rules voting system would be a good idea.why have a few people decide for 5000+ lets just vote
@Grow Up 1. No one is rushing into anything, we're offering ideas 2. When were volunteers asked for? I must have missed that email 3. And why shouldn't we rush the cure for cancer? The sooner the better I say!
oh and about the swearing....I hope you're not talking about the YSA issue...the YSA thing has sailed its course, it's over used, it's stupid, and we can do better
In regards to points 1 and 3 what I am saying is that one idea is already taking shape in the form of the section reps which I have already mentioned. Complaints at this point aren't beneficial in any way.
As for your second issue, some volunteer jobs (such as helping to set up the tailgates and other such things) have been asked for via email. The section rep volunteers were asked for on bigsoccer.com. I can't say for sure why it is that they were asked for there, but I'd like to think that it's because many of the posters there make up a large chunk of the more active SoBs and the Elders would rather fill the spots with members who have already shown they can help out.
I would like it if the SOB would give a full financial disclosure to Members. $35 x 4000 People every season is going to add up. Where does that money go?
I assume that it goes to things like running tailgates, their various philanthropic activities (ie Help Kick Hunger)and game day equipment such as those blue and gold checkered flags.
I believe the Illegitamate Sons of Ben should also receive a seat, for a total of 9 seats. The 2nd idea is representative of the Sons of Ben by where they come from. There would still be 9 seats, but they would be based on 7 counties (Philadelphia, Delaware, Chester Bucks, Montgomery, Berks, and Lancaster), 1 seat for the rest of PA, and 1 seat for Non-PA SOBers. עוזרת
YES. For God's sake, yes. The guys who founded the SoBs have done great work, but this has gone beyond them at this point. There needs to be accountability and a more open spirit towards decision making.
ReplyDeleteI say we stick with history.
ReplyDeleteThe US Constitution was created in 1787, ratified in 1788, and the Electoral College unanimously elected our first President in 1789. George Washington then served for two 4 year terms.
The Sons of Ben were created in 2007, ratified in 2008 (MLS announced Philly got the team on Feb. 28, 2008), and the first President was elected unanimously by the Elders (assumption but you get my point.)
Given that 2009 was our first year, the next elections will take place in 2013. I expect Bryan to win again (if he still wants it).
the people who have put all the time in to get this going should always be in control of the final say. maybe allow members to be elected to a position where they have some power. but while the founding members desire they should have the most power in the decision making process.
ReplyDeleteI'm not an elder or a founding member or a charter member, hell... I joined right before the season because I feared a lockout.
ReplyDeleteStill, though, I think it is way out of line to say to the guys that have sank so much of their own time, money, and passion into creating this organization, "Thanks for creating the SoB, but we're going to take it away from you now."
That is not right, not fair, not ethical. I know a few people who are saying that they demand change or they aren't happy, and those same people haven't volunteered to do jack shit throughout the course of the season.
I believe that everyone should have a voice, but I don't think that elections are the way to go. We're all members of the SoB, but the guys who created it should still be running it in this member's opinion.
Nobody wants to take the SoBs away from Bryan and Chris and Brad and the rest. But if we want to sit in the River End, we need to join the SoBs. How long does the group remain under their sole authority? I'm all for giving them a permanent role, or title, if that's what they want, but given that SoB leadership is conduit of the voices of the fans to management, the fans should have a say. (I assume, for the record, that Bryan and the rest would handily win any election - it's the principle of the thing.)
ReplyDeleteHere's an idea: A two house system of governance of the SOBs... A House of Founders and a House of Commons.
ReplyDeleteThe House of Founders would be reserved for the founders of our great organization, those who had the vision and foresight to bring the MLS to Philadelphia. Their seat would be a life long appointment.
The House of Commons would be an elected seat. I have 2 ideas as to how people would be elected to the House of Commons. The first is based on PPL seating sections. Each of the 7 River End sections would get 1 seat in the HoC,the rest of the stadium would get 1 seat, and I believe the Illegitamate Sons of Ben should also receive a seat, for a total of 9 seats. The 2nd idea is representative of the Sons of Ben by where they come from. There would still be 9 seats, but they would be based on 7 counties (Philadelphia, Delaware, Chester Bucks, Montgomery, Berks, and Lancaster), 1 seat for the rest of PA, and 1 seat for Non-PA SOBers.
Now I know looking at this idea there are going to be a lot of people who get on their Revolutionary War/Politically correct high horse "That is modeled after Parliament! This is the United States! WE CANT DO ANYTHING THEY DO!!" But this is really the best possible solution for all parties involved. Those who deserve the credit for bringing the Union to life get lifetime recognition and the masses who keep the SOBs strong and loud get represented as well.
I thought we were an autonomous collective.
ReplyDeleteAutonomous collective or not, decisions need to be made and if we're paying into something don't you think everyone should get a say in the matter?
ReplyDeleteYes you are paying into something, BUT the SOB's are a non-profit it isn't like the elders are making money off the membership. The money paid in went to tailgating supplies, the jerseys, tifo and all the other things required to make the SOB's run during the year.
ReplyDeleteThe elders are working on setting up section reps that can interact with each section of the river end, and then the reps can relay that information that they get to elders and give information to the sections.
I think everyone needs to just stand up, cheer and enjoy the games. The time and energy it takes to run an organization like this is unmeasurable. They started this group, and you CHOSE to join. If you don't like it, quit. Start your own supporters group, create and manage a website, lobby the league for a team, grow and manage a 5,000+ member club, obtain your own section in a beautiful stadium, create a productive and MUTUALLY beneficial dialogue with the FO, throw great tailgates, and on and on. OH WAIT...the SoB's have already done that for you and all they ask is for $30 a year. Whaaaaa!
ReplyDeleteArguing that membership in the SoB is -voluntary- is a load of crap. If you want to sit in the RIver End, you need to join the SoBs. Management doesn't talk to "the fans," or the leaders of other groups - they talk to the SoBs, because of the size of the group and the fact that the SoBs are effectively a team-captive organization at this point.
ReplyDeleteThe Elders should either acknowledge the true nature of their relationship to the organization, or open leadership to elections.
Why can't we share the leadership roles? Everyone just wants to feel included. I love being a part of the Sons of Ben, I love being a part of something that is bigger than me. But I also love having the feeling that I can influence that something.
ReplyDeleteAlso, no one is trying to take away from the time and energy that Bryan and all the founders have poured into both the Sons of Ben and the Union. Their effort does not go unnoticed. But it is also important for any organization to keep moving forward and not be content with the status quo. Both the Union and Sons of Ben are going to run through some tough times in the next couple season in bringing in new fans and holding on to those that we have. New ideas, new energy, and new faces can only help that process with the guiding support of Bryan and Co.
All of this has been heard time and time again. It is being worked on. The Elders are working on setting up a group of section reps for each section of TRE and I wouldn't be surprised if SoB members who aren't in TRE get representation as well. The horse being beaten here is long dead. Trying to rush this is like rushing the cure for cancer. It's being looked into and worked on, but complaining about the lack of a result isn't making it go any faster.
ReplyDeleteAnd before anyone says anything about elections for the section rep spots. Volunteers were publicly asked for and not all the spots were even filled. Lets get more people involved with the workings of the group before we even think about holding any sort of election.
Lastly... There is no way any of the elders should lose their spot unless they give it up freely. They have put more into the SoBs than any number of people combined. I'm all for the Sec Rep idea and things like it. But the Elders have earned their places. They deserve to stay in them as long as they want.
Give Us Your Poor, Your Tired, Your Huddled Masses Longing to Be FREE!
ReplyDeleteSection 133: The Illegitimates
i dont think taking the founding fathers of the group away is a good idea, they do a great job. but maybe if us normal sobs can vote on decision making would be good. since the playoffs are going on i tuned in and what do i hear during pretty much all the games. the forbidden words we cant use anymore. i know a alot of members are saying being able to vote on things such as what we can say and what we cant say would be nice because people are saying lets just say what we want just like ealges, flyers, and phillies games. why take away our philly ways. so having a majority rules voting system would be a good idea.why have a few people decide for 5000+ lets just vote
ReplyDelete@Grow Up
ReplyDelete1. No one is rushing into anything, we're offering ideas
2. When were volunteers asked for? I must have missed that email
3. And why shouldn't we rush the cure for cancer? The sooner the better I say!
oh and about the swearing....I hope you're not talking about the YSA issue...the YSA thing has sailed its course, it's over used, it's stupid, and we can do better
All adults here,
ReplyDeleteIn regards to points 1 and 3 what I am saying is that one idea is already taking shape in the form of the section reps which I have already mentioned. Complaints at this point aren't beneficial in any way.
As for your second issue, some volunteer jobs (such as helping to set up the tailgates and other such things) have been asked for via email. The section rep volunteers were asked for on bigsoccer.com. I can't say for sure why it is that they were asked for there, but I'd like to think that it's because many of the posters there make up a large chunk of the more active SoBs and the Elders would rather fill the spots with members who have already shown they can help out.
Well I guess I'll be signing up for bigsoccer.com then...
ReplyDeleteI would like it if the SOB would give a full financial disclosure to Members. $35 x 4000 People every season is going to add up. Where does that money go?
ReplyDeleteI assume that it goes to things like running tailgates, their various philanthropic activities (ie Help Kick Hunger)and game day equipment such as those blue and gold checkered flags.
ReplyDeleteI believe the Illegitamate Sons of Ben should also receive a seat, for a total of 9 seats. The 2nd idea is representative of the Sons of Ben by where they come from. There would still be 9 seats, but they would be based on 7 counties (Philadelphia, Delaware, Chester Bucks, Montgomery, Berks, and Lancaster), 1 seat for the rest of PA, and 1 seat for Non-PA SOBers.
ReplyDeleteעוזרת